Tee
4th January 2007, 10:38
Posted by Ming in : World of Warcraft, Rogue ,
Granted this is from a rogue’s perspective, so yes expect it to be biased. Before we start I would like to say this, while a lot of the 41 talent points for many classes don’t look all that impressive, like rogue’s very own surprise attacks, the talents leading up to it often maximize that particular tree’s effectiveness, that ultimately, builds that specialize in doing one thing better than everything else, will be more popular than builds that try to be well rounded. Basically a feral druid with mangle can hit very very hard with the right gear, but at the same time, his healing is pretty much non-factor against MS debuff or 5 stack wound poison. The same can be said about pretty much all the healing classes. +healing/+damage alone will probably be insufficient for 5v5 healing, when your teammates all break 10K HP and have -healing debuff on them. You will have to get some +healing gear. This also applies to rogues as well. 41 combat and 41 assassination specs will not outperform subtlety in BGs or world PVP, but for fights where you are backed by healers and are out to DPS other players backed by healers, those specs really shine. Subtlety has too many points in talents that are useless once you are out of stealth, and let’s face it, the majority of a 5v5 fight, you will be unstealthed.
Warrior:
1v1:
It was a night and day difference going from subtlety to combat. The Evasion+AR+BF+SND rushdown against warriors is far more effective than ever before. With much larger health pools, overpower damage can pretty much be ignored. The combat potency talent also allows a combat rogue to gain energy similar to the way warrior gain rage, BF+SND+renataki by itself seem to give me enough energy to spam whatever I want, thanks to a 1.3 offhand dagger. Wound poison not only greatly reduce the effect of both life gem and second wind, it also does around 50% the damage of instant poison, thanks to higher application %. Shiv with cripple offhand is our answer to hamstring, reliable cripple poison application makes kiting so much easier.
I open with CS SS SS (second SS becomes Shiv if he is not crippled) back off, if he is zerker stance I let energy recover, SND BF AR Evasion and dives right in and tear him apart. If he is one hand + shield I try to play the kiting game a little longer, but put it this way. All classes lost about 10% reduction and 2 hand warriors with 40% reduction in zerker stance really don’t have more durability than rogues at 60. Shield warriors do laughable damage with greatly reduced crits. While I can’t use the word farm status on this class, simply because of their tremendous scalability with gear and the dwarf/orc/gnome racials, I can say I fear no warrior at the moment as combat in TBC.
5v5:
Warriors are rogue killers in group PVP and they do wonders here. Their damage can be ignored when you have evasion up but once evasion is down, with MS debuff their damage becomes much harder to heal. There are much higher priority targets in 5v5 so you can’t really blow your big damage CDs on him. You will have to rely on your teammate to protect you and CC the warrior. You can certainly CC him to a degree yourself with gouge/blind. However with MS + wound debuffs, and the tremendous DPS in 5v5, “killing warrior first” is no longer stupidity, it is a very real possibility.
You see resilience is a funny stat for the warrior. Their biggest asset is enrage, as without it, their damage can be ignored for the most part. Resilience reduce the enrage procs so while it is still an extremely valuable PVP stat for them, they are the only class that doesn’t get the full benefit from it. There will definitely be warriors that roll the dice and sacrifice stamina/resilience for damage, when you recognize that, call an assist train on that scrub and show him why PVEers have no business in PVP. With wound + MS debuffs, no one is safe, especially a class that has zero escape option and must stand there and eat it.
Having said that, a properly geared warrior in 5v5 is still the most valuable member of the team. 15 second intercept is very nasty and when you throw in MS+Death Wish on top of it, the possibilities are endless. Supported by paladins, I still believe warriors are the MVP of 5v5, easy to play, hard to counter, that is what you call a strong class combo. The MK + Paladin combo of WC3 returns.
TBC Improvements:
Intervene gives warrior basically an extra intercept. Imagine a warrior intercepts a mage, and he blinks into a friendly rogue’s cheap shot, the warrior can intervene the rogue for 10 rage, not only eating an incoming hunter shot for the rogue, but also be in position immediately for further DPS on the mage. Combined with 15 second intercept, it is going to be very, very difficult to keep a warrior out of melee range, even without blessing of freedom (you just have to cleanse/dispel the root effects). Spell reflection is also super nasty when used properly. Commanding shout is a very powerful buff that benefits all members of the party, instead of just melee DPS. Warrior is no longer a simple class that holds back the imagination of skilled players, Blizzard added a lot of depth to this class for TBC and the difference between MS/Overpower scrubs and experts will be far more apparent.
Source:
http://www.worldofming.com/?p=285&page=1
Granted this is from a rogue’s perspective, so yes expect it to be biased. Before we start I would like to say this, while a lot of the 41 talent points for many classes don’t look all that impressive, like rogue’s very own surprise attacks, the talents leading up to it often maximize that particular tree’s effectiveness, that ultimately, builds that specialize in doing one thing better than everything else, will be more popular than builds that try to be well rounded. Basically a feral druid with mangle can hit very very hard with the right gear, but at the same time, his healing is pretty much non-factor against MS debuff or 5 stack wound poison. The same can be said about pretty much all the healing classes. +healing/+damage alone will probably be insufficient for 5v5 healing, when your teammates all break 10K HP and have -healing debuff on them. You will have to get some +healing gear. This also applies to rogues as well. 41 combat and 41 assassination specs will not outperform subtlety in BGs or world PVP, but for fights where you are backed by healers and are out to DPS other players backed by healers, those specs really shine. Subtlety has too many points in talents that are useless once you are out of stealth, and let’s face it, the majority of a 5v5 fight, you will be unstealthed.
Warrior:
1v1:
It was a night and day difference going from subtlety to combat. The Evasion+AR+BF+SND rushdown against warriors is far more effective than ever before. With much larger health pools, overpower damage can pretty much be ignored. The combat potency talent also allows a combat rogue to gain energy similar to the way warrior gain rage, BF+SND+renataki by itself seem to give me enough energy to spam whatever I want, thanks to a 1.3 offhand dagger. Wound poison not only greatly reduce the effect of both life gem and second wind, it also does around 50% the damage of instant poison, thanks to higher application %. Shiv with cripple offhand is our answer to hamstring, reliable cripple poison application makes kiting so much easier.
I open with CS SS SS (second SS becomes Shiv if he is not crippled) back off, if he is zerker stance I let energy recover, SND BF AR Evasion and dives right in and tear him apart. If he is one hand + shield I try to play the kiting game a little longer, but put it this way. All classes lost about 10% reduction and 2 hand warriors with 40% reduction in zerker stance really don’t have more durability than rogues at 60. Shield warriors do laughable damage with greatly reduced crits. While I can’t use the word farm status on this class, simply because of their tremendous scalability with gear and the dwarf/orc/gnome racials, I can say I fear no warrior at the moment as combat in TBC.
5v5:
Warriors are rogue killers in group PVP and they do wonders here. Their damage can be ignored when you have evasion up but once evasion is down, with MS debuff their damage becomes much harder to heal. There are much higher priority targets in 5v5 so you can’t really blow your big damage CDs on him. You will have to rely on your teammate to protect you and CC the warrior. You can certainly CC him to a degree yourself with gouge/blind. However with MS + wound debuffs, and the tremendous DPS in 5v5, “killing warrior first” is no longer stupidity, it is a very real possibility.
You see resilience is a funny stat for the warrior. Their biggest asset is enrage, as without it, their damage can be ignored for the most part. Resilience reduce the enrage procs so while it is still an extremely valuable PVP stat for them, they are the only class that doesn’t get the full benefit from it. There will definitely be warriors that roll the dice and sacrifice stamina/resilience for damage, when you recognize that, call an assist train on that scrub and show him why PVEers have no business in PVP. With wound + MS debuffs, no one is safe, especially a class that has zero escape option and must stand there and eat it.
Having said that, a properly geared warrior in 5v5 is still the most valuable member of the team. 15 second intercept is very nasty and when you throw in MS+Death Wish on top of it, the possibilities are endless. Supported by paladins, I still believe warriors are the MVP of 5v5, easy to play, hard to counter, that is what you call a strong class combo. The MK + Paladin combo of WC3 returns.
TBC Improvements:
Intervene gives warrior basically an extra intercept. Imagine a warrior intercepts a mage, and he blinks into a friendly rogue’s cheap shot, the warrior can intervene the rogue for 10 rage, not only eating an incoming hunter shot for the rogue, but also be in position immediately for further DPS on the mage. Combined with 15 second intercept, it is going to be very, very difficult to keep a warrior out of melee range, even without blessing of freedom (you just have to cleanse/dispel the root effects). Spell reflection is also super nasty when used properly. Commanding shout is a very powerful buff that benefits all members of the party, instead of just melee DPS. Warrior is no longer a simple class that holds back the imagination of skilled players, Blizzard added a lot of depth to this class for TBC and the difference between MS/Overpower scrubs and experts will be far more apparent.
Source:
http://www.worldofming.com/?p=285&page=1